Interview of the Minister of Economy. "Thanks to maneuver Italy is aligned with Europe. And the P3? A box of apples. No alternative to Berlusconi and no caretaker government, Europe would not approve"
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"The Berlusconi government is strong, and there are no credible alternatives. Neither governments technical difficulties or large arrangements. I am outside of history, and 'Europe would not approve. " Giulio Tremonti has no doubts. In spite of the scandals and conflicts of P3 on the maneuver, he sees an Italy solid and cohesive, and a government in full "control" by the end of the term. Economy Minister denies conflict and resignation. "Never threaten anything. At most, I said sometimes" not sign "." Knight Defends across the board. From P3, "at most a case of bad apples," intercept, "a law-at best bib. It stands in the way any idea of \u200b\u200bthe technical government Dragons, or large arrangements without Berlusconi. "Government Technical? Government of national unity? Figures are seasonally seem stuck in the form of a variable geometry reminiscent of an old kaleidoscope. I would have preferred to continue the conversation that we began as a discourse on "Democracy of contemporary "...".
Okay then, let's start from the well" of contemporary democracy. "What do you mean?
" Democracy is different from that of contemporary classical, and this in turn was different from the democracy of the agora. And yet it is always necessary to democracy. And yet no alternatives - democracy - even in the intense "mutatio rerum" we experience and see. Intense in the present as never before, from technology to geography. Science changes its existence. The "medicine", the "ars longa" increasingly extends its field, not just knowledge of the human body, but now able to recreate itself to parties. The iPad changes the mental faculties, creating new programming, produced in an instant something similar to what we have to be made three centuries in the transition from printed books to the electric light. On his behalf, and Google is now as important strategically, and perhaps more than one state G7. And then it suddenly changed the economic and political geography. Suddenly, for the twenty years that passed since the fall of the Berlin Wall is now a minimum time, a time not long axis of the developed typical of other revolutions in history. "
Where does this argument on the change of democracy?
"If you change the geography, politics can not be the same. Politics as has so far been built on the basis of typical closed territorial nation-state, borders on a waterproof concentrated in the state's monopoly of force. And politics was a form of exercise and control of the force. The same was the relationship between democracy and representation power. Now it is no longer the case. The axis is tilted, the representation grows, the power decreases, diluted and eroded by the global space. And the crisis intensifies this asymmetry. The crisis generated growing demands for action. The people demand more and more powerful interventions, governments increasingly weak. "
Right, just look at the weakness of the Berlusconi government ...
" Not so. My reasoning applies to all governments. The formula of political reaction solution and can no longer be national but international. And this is the political meaning of "polyarchy" designed in the Encyclical "Caritas in veritate". This is exactly what you are doing in Europe in recent months, these days, building on Member States a new "political architecture".
Minister, please, let's move from philosophy to the news these days. We speak of the difficulties Italy and its government. Here we talk of crisis, early elections, governments in transition ...
"In Italy the formula of solution can not be that of caretaker government. For two reasons. First, because there is no "melior pars" made up of nobles, technicians, lighting, capable of governing complexity. I see them, of course, but do not see them capable of governing. Secondly, because such a government not based on the popular vote, he would not chance to take a seat at the table of Europe. "
mean? You are saying that Europe would have the power to say no to a caretaker government in Italy?
"It is. And not only because Europe is built on the canon of democracy, but because Europe, which started to take the form of a common political destiny, and calls, however, requires a foundation of stability and strength. This result only by politics and democracy. A typical case of Greece: European confidence was addressed to the greek government legitimately elected. The negativity towards an exclusive role of the IMF, was based on distrust of a formula that would be weaker, because only technology. The technique can only be complementary to the policy, and do not substitute. "
But who could resist, however, a government of broad political agreements, many of whom speak in Pd and nell'Udc?
" The broad aim of the series occurs only in two scenarios. After the elections, highlighting the failure of bilateral forces, or the effect of trauma. Frankly, I do not see Italy in this trauma strong enough to push this idea of \u200b\u200ba solution. Not an injury "loss", not a trauma "outside", not a trauma "judicial".
economy, in fact, the trauma we have threatened to attack the market with the bad, and maybe we will continue to risk today and in the coming months. Is not it?
"The economic trauma has been suggested now, just after the formation of this government, which came in response to the crisis. The hypothesis has not been verified. It was a hypothesis based on both inadequate and only partial analysis of reality, as the underestimation of the strength of government. 2008, 2009, 2010. We are now into the third fall, and on time for each fall was expected and now the crisis is expected. An external shock, caused by the outbreak of financial speculation on our debt. An internal crisis, with the breakdown of order and social cohesion. In recent years the Left has focused on fear, as if this was an ideology cyclical replacement. Not so, it is not, will not be so. "
But it was you who said that the maneuver without risking the end of Greece ...
" Exactly, without the maneuver. In fact in 2008 we started with the financial law for three years and we've been on the same line. The numbers for Italy are now aligned in the standard and the European average. It could have been different, and it was not. And this was certainly underestimated the strength of their own and Italy. But also, you will readily admit, for the vision and strength in government. "
Yet, just speak a little 'ambassadors to know that our Western partners are worried about keeping politics of the Berlusconi government. one can deny this?
"That would be the second trauma, the" external ". They used to say "saber rattling." Now, more peaceful age, it is called "Stationery items". Frankly I do not think that this information is relevant. For two reasons. Why the crisis requires stability as a higher value. And why does not seem that many other governments were in a position of strength than that of Italy. To be clear, around Europe do not see governments so strong and so determined and decisive. But, on the contrary, all engaged in managing their internal crises. Management, around Europe, it seems to me stronger than ours, but often contradictory, uncertain and disputed. In fact, we are all committed in Europe in the construction of a new architecture of policy and higher interest. The role of Italy in the European scenario is strong, applied for and considered. The role of Silvio Berlusconi is strong. And, in my small, example, Tuesdays are invited to Freiburg in Germany for the "Lessons from Europe". And as a university professor, but as a minister of the Italian Republic. "
But your most likely every day the internal implosion. What about an investigation, the Ministers who resign, the scandal of the P3?
"For political choice, I always tend to system analysis. It is certain that it is not just a bad apple. There's something more. Perhaps, and perhaps even without, is coming off a box of apples. But the tree is rotten, and the fruit is not rotten. The combination is one of the perverse personal conduct and the general crisis. The crisis requires the climb, and the descent in the scale of ethics, aesthetics and even if he wants. "
So she, like the prime minister, thinks that these are just fuss?
" policy must always distinguish between what is "crime" and what is "sin", and not to be confused with one another. There may be a crime without sin, how can there be sin without offense. The Ten Commandments are one thing, something different codes. A serious political discourse can and must also be started in our house on this field. Indeed it has already begun, but because this can not be generalized and trivialized. "
trivialized? Here are pieces of state and government who seek to infiltrate and influence the decisions of the judiciary in the name of "Caesar." Where do you see the banality?
"banal" I mean the "banality of evil." And for this I do not believe that focusing on the avalanche of intercepting a disservice to the ethics policy. "
The last interception, however, have allowed us to reveal the plots around the wind, and the new dome just renamed P3 ...
"The latest intercepts are an interesting read. What emerges is a bestiary of wheeler-made loafers, the" powers "impotent, if you look at the results of crimes more" tempting "and" consumed ". More flocking the scene, most everything gets confused. And the supposed "tragedy" does comedy. This does not mean that there is a moral issue ...".
Thank goodness: it recognizes that there is a moral issue in the center?
"But the moral is a general question. This is a country where many "governments" have been cloned and local galaxies derived in corporate "parallel." Often larger than the governments themselves. And not always in the democratic and judicial control. Read the monograph of the Court of Auditors. Italy is in distress half health. This dramatically reduces the "figure" of public morals. Too often, public funds are a pipeline to the business. Today the business of wind energy business is that, at least this is not invented by us. Vast areas of the country were marred by wind turbines arisen suddenly, in an area that in past centuries has never had the windmills. And maybe there will be a reason. It is in this that I see the great moral issue, this is the tree that goes wrong righted. To do that I see no alternative to fiscal federalism. The one, the last form to bring transparency and efficiency in the common thing. "
Meanwhile, to hide all the citizens, the government enacts the law-gag. Do you agree with this?
"The track can be a serious discussion about a serious subject, such as of the dialectic between the right to privacy and right to information was lost in a maze. And only now can perhaps be found. More than a gag, it seems that it was a "bib". It is too confusing, and not only by us, between means and ends. "
bib, you say? Then why have paralyzed Parliament this for two years, to discuss wiretaps, instead of talking real problems of the country?
"At the Parliament a month is enough to make a" maneuver ". Effective action, the first made in Europe and here in Italy. Elsewhere we are still at the stage of drawings, documents, resolves, reactions square. With us was not so. And the "operation" was not only financial but also political. For the first time, reducing the scope of the state, with the actual zero of thirty government agencies, the cost of government and politics. "
Minister, apart from the cuts to the regions, there is nothing in the maneuver ... structural
"The operation was made more serious pension reform in Europe in recent years and the same day there was Pomigliano, with the work that comes out but returns to Italy and the Mezzogiorno. And perhaps these two, pensions and Pomigliano, are two of the most important P P3. With respect, and speaking with pride, the government's action against organized crime has an intensity and effectiveness is not yet known. And maybe this should be put into the pot of justice. "
But the regions? Why governors protesting? Why Formigoni says that will have to cut services to citizens?
" Here is the dialectic of thesis, antithesis, synthesis. The political process has now worked with municipalities and provinces, and now is closing with the regions. As municipalities and provinces, as well the regions have finally accepted our proposal to discuss it within the fiscal federalism such as the municipal region. And in the end, the budget seems positive. Overall, the operation was done on a wide basic social consensus. "
and growth? Also on this plate of the maneuver is miserably empty. It can deny it?
" As I said, the numbers are aligned to the Italian average. In operation, in addition to financial stability, there is still a first "figure" of development. From business networks to the drastic reduction in bureaucracy. More generally the present time there is no development in one country, there is no development with the OJ, especially since the third world debt. Moreover, the recovery process is increased more than by economic policies, the exchange rate against the dollar. And yet some still much to be done. From the "battle to the right, "too many rules are in fact a cost and a limit to development, to get to the research, so it should be made a big public investment fund, the combination of the reform of technical colleges, which must also participate in business , and the contract of apprenticeship. "
Bersani calls for a long time to go to Parliament, to discuss the crisis. Why do you refuse?
"The sequence can not be the first who then what, that is, before you choose who rules and then decide what to do. This sequence reflects an excess of hate articulated. First we must discuss things."
And the clash between Prime Minister Fini and what he says. That is not a danger for the maintenance of the PDL?
"Although this issue falls within the anthropomorphic idea of \u200b\u200bpolitics, that is not mine."
can not deny that the other clash in the majority of concerns she and the President of the Council. It is true that last Friday even Gianni Letta has reprimanded by the Council of Ministers?
"Today we have laughed about it. I see too much confusion between" personal "and" political. "Of course, in politics also counts the staff, but on too many" battles "I read too much folklore ...".
is true or not almost every day she threatens to resign?
"I never threatened to resign, but often I said "I do not sign." And then the vote is always reached, positive and convincing. Everything I did, and maybe even a little 'over economic policy, I believe, however, to what seemed to me good for my country. And I could not do it without Berlusconi and Bossi, or against Berlusconi and Bossi. It will do so in the autumn and beyond. "(Massimo Giannini - La Repubblica)
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